Traveller-digest     Saturday, November 30 1996     Volume 1996 : Number 705



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

MILIEU 0 vs. TNE
Re: Stuff & K'kree recipes
Re: The Rebellion
Re: MILIEU 0 vs. TNE
RE: Stuff & K'kree recipes
Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #704
RE: Stuff & K'kree recipes
Re: Stuff & K'kree recipes
Re: The Rebellion
How long has the Imperium had TL12?
Re: Chirpers as food
Re: [T96#700] Common Language?
Subject: RE: The Rebellion 
Re: Chirpers as food
Re: MILIEU 0 vs. TNE
Genetic Ships
Re: The Rebellion
Re: How long has the Imperium had TL12?
"Classic Traveller"  RE: The Rebellion
Ine Givar

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 18:30:39 +0000
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: MILIEU 0 vs. TNE

Just my 2 cents...

Milieu 0 gives you the same adventure potential as TNE, but coming from a
much more positive and wider ranging background, i.e. you can play highish
tech (Syleans, few pocket empires), medium tech (survivors of Long Night),
low tech (newly rediscovered planet natives, etc.). It's so much more
flexible than TNE and doesn't require suspension of disbelief over something
as argument-creating as the Virus.

The Milieu 0 book gives an interesting slant however even to the 'positive'
side of Cleon's expansion, and there are so many adventure hooks in there
anyone ought to be able to create games for the period, for any class of
character. Plus there's the political power games of the Moot and the Nobles
to try out. I just hope it makes it to print soon!

Bustard One out.

Andy :-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 10:39:35 -0800
From: "Brian A. Howard" <bruadh@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Stuff & K'kree recipes

O.K. folks you asked for it!

> >
> >>Well... as pot roast they ain't bad either! :)
> >

This is a regular staple at our home often served to family and guests.

Pepsi-K'Kree Potroast.

1 K'Kree shank potroast 
1 can hi-tec (Campbell's)Cream of mushroom protein paste 
1 package simulated onion soup spices
355ml Pepsi (no substitues please)
vegetables are optional

Toss it all in your cold fusion sloooow cooker with any choice of
vegtables on low and forget it for 6 to 8 hours.  Enjoy, it's really
good.

(My wife read over my shoulder once too often!)

Sigh ;-)

Brian

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 13:23:02 -0500
From: Rob Beck <beck@mail.all-net.net>
Subject: Re: The Rebellion

At 08:05 AM 11/29/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I guess there is a romantic side to me that see's Norris sweeping into
>the core sectors and reuniting the Shattered Imperium.  I realize
>logistically it would be a difficult task, but whose to say that Norris
>couldn't ally with some of the other factions (Strephon, Margaret?) and
>then make a concented drive to take out the 2 toughest factions (Dulinor
>and Lucan).

Ok, so I would have liked to run a campaign like that also. I was just
pointing out the practicalities and problems of such an endeavor, not
wholeheartedly stomping on it. :) Norris and Strephon would have been an
almost guaranteed alliance. If Norris could win the Vilani over and let him
use their territory as a staging ground from which to attack Lucan and then
turn on Ilelish, well, then perhaps he would have had a chance. Still don't
buy Margaret. She would have required that Norris at least acknowledge one
of her heirs as the new emperor and would have wanted him to incorporate his
territory into her little government. Margaret was a bit too self-absorbed
to help Norris. Still, this is a game. Anything's possible. That's where
good dramas are born...and speaking of great drama...

>Desperate times call for heroic measures, that's what great drama is
>made of.

You want drama?
I ran a Rebellion campaign that required a group of ex-military, including a
couple of high-ranking Navy types, to get from the beseiged Solomani Rim all
the way to Deneb. They were just about to begin their retirement when news
of the Emperor's assassination reached them on Terra. They decided that the
Rim was not safe as it would be crawling with Solomani war fleets in no
time, and they correctly predicted that the sectors between Lucan and
Dulinor would turn into killing fields, and that the only safe haven might
be in Deneb, which seemed to be out of the main fight. So they had to make
an end run around both Lucan and Dulinor's realms, picking fights, helping
refugees, and sacrificing much of their personal properties and even some
friends, but they reached Deneb and some degree of safety, only to be
dragged in to Norris' plans to try to feel out the rest of the Imperium for
possible reunification, and guess who he decided to pick to help out in that
mission...
Was that good enough? :)

Rob.

                         Robert Beck
                         E-Mail: beck@mail.all-net.net
                         Send E-Mail For My Public PGP Key.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 12:05:50 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: Re: MILIEU 0 vs. TNE

On Fri, 29 Nov 1996, Andy Lilly wrote:

> Just my 2 cents...
> 
> Milieu 0 gives you the same adventure potential as TNE, but coming from a
> much more positive and wider ranging background, i.e. you can play highish
> tech (Syleans, few pocket empires), medium tech (survivors of Long Night),
> low tech (newly rediscovered planet natives, etc.). It's so much more

And don't forget, the low tech planets may also be those whose
socities were so severely disrupted during the Long Night that they 
regressed severely.  Interstellar war, even when conducted among only a 
few planets, can have devastating effects on a society, to say the least.


> The Milieu 0 book gives an interesting slant however even to the 'positive'
> side of Cleon's expansion, and there are so many adventure hooks in there
> anyone ought to be able to create games for the period, for any class of
> character. Plus there's the political power games of the Moot and the Nobles
> to try out. 

Not to mention the interesting economic expansion plan laid out by the 
newly born Imperium.  Fans of economics and trade will definitely find many, 
many adventure hooks worthy of being expanded upon.  At the same time, 
those who take a more liberal view will find much to fight against.


> I just hope it makes it to print soon!

Roger that!


> Bustard One out.

Bustard Seven, signing off.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 12:40:23 -0600
From: "K.C. Komosky" <kc@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: Stuff & K'kree recipes

>Pepsi-K'Kree Potroast.
>
>1 K'Kree shank potroast
>1 can hi-tec (Campbell's)Cream of mushroom protein paste
>1 package simulated onion soup spices
>355ml Pepsi (no substitues please)
>vegetables are optional
>
>Toss it all in your cold fusion sloooow cooker with any choice of
>vegtables on low and forget it for 6 to 8 hours.  Enjoy, it's really
>good.
>

Allright, we K'kree have held our noses for long enough on this list. We 
had felt that Traveller list members were perhaps more enlightened than 
your average human barbarian, and we had planned to give you all the 
honoured position of kr'rrir (subjects) of the glorious Two Thousand 
Worlds, after suitable rrab!ak (re-education) of course.

But not now. You are all hearby declared g'naak, and you can expect a visit 
from the kirunika!rra (pest control) any day now.

Have a nice day

Ktoongur!gnaarr of Kirrur

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end

------------------------------

Date: 29 Nov 1996 17:45:27 GMT
From: ajpursell@babylon.montreal.qc.ca (Alan Pursell)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #704

Hey there,

gone south to get some sun and recover from the snow that just keeps on
coming... back next tuesday. 

see ya...

alan j

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 12:54:22 -0600
From: "K.C. Komosky" <kc@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: Stuff & K'kree recipes

>Allright, we K'kree have held our noses for long enough on this list. We 
had felt that >Traveller list members were perhaps more enlightened than 
your average human >barbarian, and we had planned to give you all the 
honoured position of kr'rrir (subjects) >of the glorious Two Thousand 
Worlds, after suitable rrab!ak (re-education) of course.
>
>But not now. You are all hearby declared g'naak, and you can expect a 
visit from the >kirunika!rra (pest control) any day now.
>
>Have a nice day
>
>Ktoongur!gnaarr of Kirrur

Sorry all you g'naak. Ktoongur!gnaarr is getting on in years, and forgot to 
turn his damn MS RTF formatting off.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 14:52:43 -0500
From: "Peter L. Berghold" <peterb@superlink.net>
Subject: Re: Stuff & K'kree recipes

K.C. Komosky wrote:
 >
> >But not now. You are all hearby declared g'naak, and you can expect a
> visit from the >kirunika!rra (pest control) any day now.
HAH!

I await your arrival!  You think that was Terran turkey on my table
yesterday ??  No!  It was baby K'kree roasted with sausage stuffing! 


- -- 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%% Peter L. Berghold -- Unix Hacker at Large                          %%
%% TCG -- MIS Department       PHONE: (908) 392-2722                  %%
%% berghold@tcg.com  (work Email)    peterb@superlink.net (play Email)%%
%% "Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it"  %%
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 12:16:30 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The Rebellion

I still prefer the 1115 era, but I see Year 0 as very different from
1200.  After the Virus almost eve world outside of the Regency was 
reduced to very low tech levels, many to preindustrial levels.  I don't 
see this happening in most worlds during the Long Night.

Sure, small, marginal, colonies would either die off or end up loosing all
technology, but populous, habitable, industrial worlds would drop to TL
8-10 and stick there.  There was no devastating collapse where the
technological base of the Imperium was destroyed.  The Long Night was a
social and economic collapse, not a technological one.  It was much more
gradual and much less devastating.  Of the two I like the Long Night a
whole lot better. 

Going out to recontact a lot of TL 8-11 worlds sounds a lot more fun than 
raiding the latest TED or landing on one of the hundreds of once great, 
now stone age worlds.


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 20:39:45 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: How long has the Imperium had TL12?

Just a quick question.  TL12 is supposed to be relatively new to
Traveler in Milleu 0, yet most of the ships listed in the T4 main
rulebook are built using the newest technology.  It seems strange to
me that there are so few TL11 (or earlier) ships mentioned.  If all of
the Imperium's neighbours are limited to TL11, it would have been nice
to see some of the standard ship types like free traders and scouts
built at earlier tech levels so that you could use them as a basis for
Vargr or Zhodani vessels (which have little access to TL12 technology,
especially civilian craft).

Of course, if the Imperium has had TL12 for some time now (50 years
minimum, just to allow trader captains to own their TL12 vessels
outright prior to game play) this might be a moot point.  I know that
there are significant advantages to TL12 but it just seems strange to
me that civilian vessels have such easy access to what some might
consider "new technology".  If you add up all of the TL12 shipyards in
the Imperium, it hardly seems accurate that so many would be producing
civilian craft, especially with the Imperium in its current state of
expansion (ie: the need for military craft should take priority).





James W. Lindsay    Vancouver, British Columbia

"Ack! Icky plptht TAZ grunga yeek... PLPTHT!!!"
                             -Tasmanian Devil

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 15:16:07 -0500
From: "Peter L. Berghold" <peterb@superlink.net>
Subject: Re: Chirpers as food

Carlos Alos-Ferrer wrote:
er 2
> humans). So, the question: Are chirpers edible? Could the humans substitute
> imported food by Chirper herding?
>         And, in case anyone is wondering... yes, it is a Geonee world.
> 

Well... I suppose... but they are so scrawny you'd need three or four of
them to make a decent sandwich...


- -- 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%% Peter L. Berghold -- Unix Hacker at Large                          %%
%% TCG -- MIS Department       PHONE: (908) 392-2722                  %%
%% berghold@tcg.com  (work Email)    peterb@superlink.net (play Email)%%
%% "Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it"  %%
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 96 18:42:00 -0500
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (JEFF ZEITLIN)
Subject: Re: [T96#700] Common Language?

Mused <marz@hotstar.net> (at least that's his nym this week) writes...

T::>Harry wrote:
 ::>> By the way, is that -25C or -25.

T::>I would guess C. Canada is on the metric system

T::>and now for your convenience, a list of all countries still using the old
 ::>imperial measurement
 ::>systems, in descending order of economic strength

T::>USA
 ::>Liberia

 ... Myanmar (for those of you who don't want to call it Burma)

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
  OLXWin 1.00b  ^Cu vi parolas la lingvon internacian?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 23:31:20 -0500
From: HDHale@aol.com
Subject: Subject: RE: The Rebellion 

K.C. Komosky writes:

>what exactly is different between the TNE setting and Meilleiu 0? 
>Essentially nothing from what I can tell. Both are settings where humanity 
>rebuilds after a collapse into a new empire.

   When asked this question during the Traveller seminar held at Gen Con,
Marc Miller's reply was simply, "no Virus".  This drew a round of applause
from the classic and MegaTraveller fans in the audience, and grumbles and
evil glares from TNE fans.  I won't comment on Marc's lack of diplomacy
skills, but that is the short answer.

   The long answer is that the Milieu 0 setting takes place in an era much
later in relation to the collapse that preceeded it.  Thus, there aren't any
Remnants to tell you how artifacts work, and the working artifacts that
remain are much fewer and farther between.  There are probably more pocket
empires in the Milieu 0 era, though they are restricted to TL 11 or less.
 The atmosphere of Milieu Zero is suppose to be more "frontier-like", less
dark than TNE, though it should be said that the writers of TNE never
intended it to be as dark as some people made it out to be.  It should also
be noted that there is no TL 13+ equipment in Milieu Zero (at least none of
current manufacture available to the PCs), and your player-character's
actions are to a degree limited by historical events (yes, I know what IG,
Marc et al have said, but...), whereas the future in TNE is left pretty wide
open, and there is always the TL 16 sanctuary of the Regency to fall back on.

>So since the two settings are essentially identical, why did they bother 
>coming up with a new setting? If Marc Miller really wanted to get back to 
>Classic Traveller, why didn't he set things back in 1115, or whenever.

   I thought the best solution would have been to advance the storyline of
TNE up about 800 years and have the setting revolve around a new Imperium.
 Others have suggested solutions similar to yours, and some have even
advocated trashing canon storylines altogether.

   Ultimately, the decision was made to go back in history with T4 rather
than continue to advance the storyline, at least for now.  It was a creative
choice, made by people who have a lot more at stake professionally and
financially than we do.  It is up to you to decide if they made the right
call, and if so, buy T4 products.

>By the way, no one is holding a gun up against your head forcing you to use 
>the Virus. If you want a united empire under Norris, JUST DO IT!

   My solutions for a non-Virus, post-Rebellion Solomani Rim and Solomani
Confederation are hinted at in Traveller Chronicle #11.  Basically the Treaty
of Altair, which ends the Rebellion in this part of space, merely signals a
transition from Solomani vs. Imperial to Solomani vs. Solomani warfare.  The
coming Solomani Civil War is hinted at on several occasions in MT, and would
have effectively caused the Confederation to collapse at least in the short
term.  Ideally the Moderate and Liberal factions could have won the struggle
for control, and created a new Solomani Confederation.

   It is unlikely that Norris could have patched back together the Imperium,
Virus or not.  The Imperium was basically dead by the late 1120s, and Norris,
surrounded on three sides by hostile or potentially hostile forces, was in no
position to launch a crusade across the Great Rift to save the day.

   Not all stories have happy endings....

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 19:01:18 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Chirpers as food

 Carlos Alos-Ferrer wrote:
> humans). So, the question: Are chirpers edible? Could the humans substitute
> imported food by Chirper herding?

What are you feeding the chirpers? And why can't the humans eat that
*instead*. 

Remember, if the humans *can* eat it, it'll support roughly ten times
as many people as feeding it to chirpers, then eating the chirpers will.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 00:33:19 -0500
From: TPeterAZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: MILIEU 0 vs. TNE

A couple of cents from my end as well: <Uh,oh.  Rant Alert! Rant Alert!>

I really hated (passionately) the campaign setting of TNE.  I'm not the type
of person who has a "Magic Happens" bumper sticker, but, for the love of God,
could TNE have been any more somber, morose, or self-righteous?  Toppling
TEDs with mortars, plasma weapons, grenades, and a few grav tanks is not, and
never will be, IMHO what made CT the game we all loved in the first place.  I
like war games.  I liked D&D for a long, long time.  I really liked
Twilight:2000.  But I loved Traveller.  Traveller was, and is, different,
because it's tone is so much more optimistic than any other RPG I can recall.
 It's players and their characters (in the best campaigns with which I was
involved) often put altruistic goals ahead of profits, for the sake of
furthering the story.  It is science-fiction at it's finest.  It is a view of
a better world, a better place.  (Why do I feel like the "hippie" counselor
in the film Heathers?)  Dave Nilsen once wrote in Challenge that certain
moral elements of TNE were emphasized because, "some things are just right,
dammit."  Unfortunately, he wrote this in response to the need to eliminate
TEDs (Although I do agree they should have been eliminated.  Better yet, they
should never have been created.)  I'm not opposed to violence in RPGs.  I'm
opposed to RPGs existing for the purpose of perpetrating violence.  (Except,
maybe, BattleTech.)  I actively encourage my PCs to avoid violence, in all
but extreme circumstances, because bullets and lasers will kill you.  I don't
mean for this to come across as a heavy-handed, moralistic sermon, however; I
simply believe violence in RPGs loses it's effectiveness as a storytelling
opportunity when it is the only story there is.  If you want nothing but
combat (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) break out one of the many great
war games that have been created (I still enjoy CT-Era "Invasion:Earth," the
story of the final battle of the Solomani Rim War.)  

Milieu 0, OTOH, strikes me as reaching for the sense of wonder, the sense of
story, the sense of awe, that only exists in the very best science-fiction
has to offer.  There isn't enough evidence yet to say that it always
succeeds, but, I'm encouraged by the tenor of what has been published.  And,
there exists the mechanism for the inevitable gunfights, fistfights, chases,
and fleet battles that will arise.  When combat is used sparingly, the sense
of excitement and danger is enhanced, helping to drive the story.  Which is
my goal in refereeing Traveller in the first place.

<Whew, glad that's over.>

Tim Peter
<TPeterAZ@aol.com>
"Never let your schooling get in the way of your education."--- Mark Twain

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 01:00:38 -0500 (EST)
From: pierre-louis constantin <Pierre-Louis.Constantin@DMI.USherb.CA>
Subject: Genetic Ships

'lo!

	It's late and I'm not thinking straight, but my question is,
has anybody tried using genetic algorithms to figure out which kind
of ship would be optimized for use in each area of the Imperium?


- -- 
Pierre-Louis Constantin, ift. a. 	"He whose name was writ in E-mail."
(: "I hate fanatics with a passion; all extremists should be shot." :)
	    How's my surfing? http://www.dmi.usherb.ca/~constanp/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 22:09:20 -0800
From: "Rich Ostorero" <stormhvn@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: The Rebellion

> 
> >I don't dispute word of what you wrote, but what real difference is it 
> >going to make to a Traveller player? None really.
> 
> The difference is in the attitude.  TNE characters were rooting around
for
> the bits of high tech left untouched by Virus, seeing world after world
> where untold billions had died, and still facing the threat that a
Vampire
> Fleet could destroy the whole thing.

Not to mention _other_ expanding states like the Solee Empire and the _very
frightening_ prospect of a Viral Empire (behind the Black Curtain, in _my_
TNE game, is a Virus Empire).
> 
> Milieu: 0 is set at the dawn of a new age, when after two thousand years
of
> quiet mankind is stepping forth again.  The Scouts of the New Imperium
> aren't going to have the 70-year old records the Star Vikings had,
they'll
> make do with rumor and legend, the merchants will be drooling over the
new
> markets, and the never-do-wells of 20 worlds will be heading for the
> frontier as fast as they can to try to stake their fortune.

 . . . and to elude the ever-present and very annoying Sylean cops. There's
also, as I understand, _massive_ population pressure on the two main Core
worlds of Sylea and Ordun. The kind of population pressure that can only be
relieved by a combination of an Exodus and/or prisoner transportation a la
Great Britain, the US and Australia.
> 
> Remember that for the people of M:0, the Rule of Man is as remote as the
> Roman Empire is to us today.  The odd ruin here and there, maybe a few
> decaying orbital facilities, but for the most part, it has passed into
myth.

_Very_ good point! That's how I'd run an exploration campaign: the theme is
"Everything You Know Is Probably Wrong.

> How will people react when the PC's Type S burns down to land on
Parliment's
> front lawn to announce the Third Imperium?  Cheers?  A Parade?  Or
perhaps a
> lynch mob? 

How about a maniac on a street corner holding up a sign: "Will Travel For
Food"?? :)

A lot can change in 1700 years..

Yeah, a change from TL1 to the cusp of TL9,  the rise and fall of _several_
empires in the Western world alone: Roman, Byzantine, Ottoman, British,
Spanish, French, Inca, Aztec, Persian, Arab . . . .

> A world that was once an
> industrial giant may have been destroyed in a nuclears war, while what
was a
> small agricultural colony in -1776 might now be a TL11 industrial giant.
> 
> 
> Someday, I'm going to start a campaign in 1104 and take all the way
through
> the 5th Frontier War.  Set in my favorite subsector (Lunion), I'll play
up
> the whole hightening of tensions, border incidents, and have the PC's Far
> Trader a little to close to the Sword Worlds border when the hostilities
> start...

Can I play? Huh Huh Huh??? :) I like the sound of this!

- --Rich Ostorero
stormhvn@inreach.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 22:30:39 -0800
From: "Rich Ostorero" <stormhvn@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: How long has the Imperium had TL12?

Just a quick question.  TL12 is supposed to be relatively new to
Traveler in Milleu 0, yet most of the ships listed in the T4 main
rulebook are built using the newest technology.  It seems strange to
me that there are so few TL11 (or earlier) ships mentioned.

Good point. In my game -- where an Imperium of 20 worlds has a potent and
active enemy on the same Main (the Ardin Star Empire, centered on Ardis and
Eneri), the Imperium's _only_ major advantage over the Ardins is the tech
edge (I reduced both Ardis and Eneri to Tech 11 at the start of my game).
The Ardins are more aggressive, more ruthless, a _lot_ more foresighted,
and finally, are not laboring under Sylea's delusions of military adequacy.

The Syleans must get tough and mean as well as smart -- and soon -- or the
Ardins will win.

If all of the Imperium's neighbours are limited to TL11, it would have been
nice
to see some of the standard ship types like free traders and scouts
built at earlier tech levels so that you could use them as a basis for
Vargr or Zhodani vessels (which have little access to TL12 technology,
especially civilian craft).

Sounds like a project . . . . ;)

Of course, if the Imperium has had TL12 for some time now (50 years
minimum, just to allow trader captains to own their TL12 vessels
outright prior to game play) this might be a moot point.  I know that
there are significant advantages to TL12 but it just seems strange to
me that civilian vessels have such easy access to what some might
consider "new technology".  If you add up all of the TL12 shipyards in
the Imperium, it hardly seems accurate that so many would be producing
civilian craft, especially with the Imperium in its current state of
expansion (ie: the need for military craft should take priority).

And it _does_. Right now, in my game, I have made TL-11 designs of all
Imperial Major Combatants (in my game-world, there is a techno-babble-based
limit of 5000 tons on starships . . . this lets me design all possible
ships with QSDS until a 'technological breakthrough' makes it possible to
jump more than 5000 displacement tons through space). It's arbitrary, but
it works for me:)

- --Rich Ostorero
stormhvn@inreach.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 22:59:37 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <sudet@well.com>
Subject: "Classic Traveller"  RE: The Rebellion

>From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>

>Is there any kind of word as to what the next books after the first six are
>going to be?  I for one would really like to see the true "classic" setting
>come back!

The "classic" setting has been pretty thoroughly done.  It's a great time in which to 
set adventures (I set all of my stuff then), in part because it so rich in detail, but 
what more could be published?  DGP and HIWG have filled in all of the sectors.  The 
great mysteries of that time have been solved.  What more can Marc Miller do in the 
classic setting?

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 23:35:32 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <sudet@well.com>
Subject: Ine Givar

>From: BrianMays@aol.com

>Can anyone tell me more about the Ine Givar? ... My campaign is taking place in 1110 in 
>the Glisten subsector, and the Ine Givar sound like just the terrorists I was looking 
>for . . .

Yes, that's just what they are -- the terrorists any referee is looking for.  

The Imperial authorities tended to lump together any anti-Imperial activism in the 
Spinward Marches under the rubric "Ine Givar."  This was largely Admiral Santanocheev's 
fault.  Santanocheev, we recall, was the Sector Admiral for the Spinward Marches, who so 
distrusted Imperial Naval Intelligence that he set up his own intelligence department, 
which reported directly to him.

Santanocheev's problem with INI was that its reports didn't match his own paranoia that 
there was a single, Zhodani-backed campaign to unseat the Imperium from control of the 
Marches (his own sycophants, of course, reinforced his paranoia).  He couldn't or 
wouldn't accept the fact that many independent groups, for varying reasons, were working 
- -- often violently -- to change the status quo in the Marches.  Certainly many of these 
movements were funded by the Zhodani or Sword Worlds, but there was no unitary plot, and 
the inspiration for these groups' activities came from conditions within the Imperium, 
not from external sources.

Some examples:  The Tanoose Freedom League was trying to free Garda-Vilis from 
domination by Vilis. (Adventure 7, Broadsword.)  The Zid Rachele Society was a Vilani 
racist group trying to expunge Solomani influence from the Imperium (although mostly in 
Deneb Sector, and not so much in the Marches).  (Imperial Encyclopedia.)  

In answer to your question, however, there isn't much on the Ine Givar -- not even a 
library data entry.  I'm not even sure how the name is intended to be pronounced.  Is 
the "e" silent or voiced?  Is the "g" hard or soft?
Ein Ghivar?  Inay Zhivar?  you pick

- --Glenn

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1996 #705
**********************************

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